Felony Charges Filed Against MO Couple Who Pointed Guns at Protesters
Felony charges have been filed against the St. Louis couple who pointed guns at protesters marching against racial injustice outside their mansion. Attorney Paul Harding of Martin, Harding & Mazzotti, LLP is on PYX106 discussing the charges. Is the couple likely to be convicted?
Please give it a listen or read the transcript below.
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Male 2: “Ken” and “Karen.” That’s what…
Male 1: “Ken” and “Karen,” the McCloskey clan.
Male 2: Yeah, the internet has named them “Ken” and “Karen.” You know, Paul, that’s probably beneath you to call anyone any name, but they’re also known as the McCloskeys. So they were the couple, when the protesters came through their gated community, went and got their guns and were waving them around. So they were… What were they? I wanna say… is convicted too strong of a word, Paul?
Paul: No, they were charged. You’re right, they’re…
Male 2: Charged.
Paul: Yeah, yeah. So they’re charged with a felony, and that just kind of came down yesterday and everybody’s trying to figure out where that’s gonna go.
Male 1: So what is the felony? Is it the aiming thing we were talking about?
Paul: Yeah. So what happens is they’re saying that they, you know, were using their weapons in a way that was aggressive towards someone else. I mean, I can’t walk around… assuming I had a gun, I can’t walk around the mall, I can’t walk around certain places and wave my gun.
Male 1: Yeah, that was some…
Paul: It’s dangerous. It puts people at risk.
Male 1: “Hey, Paul.”
Male 2: You can’t order ice cream… You can’t order off the dollar menu pointing your gun at the items?
Male 1: “Nice rifle.”
Paul: I could get some free press. I’d be a front page, yeah. But the difference here… you know, in New York it’s the same as Missouri, you know, it’s called the castle doctrine. So if you’re in your home, you do not have a duty to retreat. So their position is, “Hey, there were hundreds of people coming through our gate, coming in our lawn. We were in fear so we stood our ground and we brought the guns out.” And you saw how she was waving it around. It looked like she was gonna shoot herself, right? So…
Male 1: Yeah, that was their problem.
Male 2: I thought she was gonna hurt him.
Male 1: They should have just gotten a couple of rocking chairs, maybe a sweet tea, sat on the front porch, and like, put the gun over their shoulder. It would have done the same thing.
Male 2: Unfortunately…
Paul: Would have done the same thing.
Male 2: …this has turned political because now the governor’s coming out. He said on Hannity that he’s gonna pardon them. But if this did go to a trial, Paul, they would probably win, wouldn’t they?
Paul: I think they would. I think they would win and I think probably, you know, what the prosecutor’s kind of saying is, “Listen, we’re not thinking jail time here. We just want them to be educated when you can and cannot use your gun.” Again, charged with a felony is pretty serious, right? So people in the… He’s a lawyer so that can affect his license, ability to practice law. So in the…
Male 1: Look at this picture.
Paul: …situation here, he’s probably gonna take this coast to coast. He’s probably not gonna accept the plea then, of course, if he is found guilty and pardoned, I think we learned last week, a pardon is it basically erases the charge.
Male 1: This picture we’re looking at, Paul, is something that I was hoping to find, but look at where the gun is. You got Karen flailing that thing around with a loose wrist and it’s behind the husband’s head.
Male 2: I know.
Male 1: Behind her husband’s head half the time, and it could go off.
Male 2: Yeah, that’s 100 safety fail right there.
Male 1: Yeah, that’s brutal.
Paul: Yeah. Charges should be… He should have brought the charges because it…right, he was in more…he was in tremendous amount of danger. When you have a gun, the general rule is you always assume it’s loaded, and then you always point it sort of away from anything or anybody that’s not your intended target, right? So, I mean, she’s violating the rules, and at first when I thought they were charged, I thought they were gonna be charged with just some, you know, just some kind of, like, they didn’t have the proper authority to have the gun. You know, didn’t have the right registrations or something. So this charge just seems a little aggressive and, again, if they proceed with it…
Male 1: And white chinos and a pink golf shirt, I would have gone in and switched up the clothing.
Male 2: That was Sunday dinner too.
Male 1: Yeah.
Male 2: You know there’s a couple of empty bottles of Grigio clinking around up there.
Paul: Oh, no question about it.
Male 2: So, Grigio… I guess I do know, Paul, it really is political, right? Like, you said the charges are aggressive. Is it a Democrat leading that charge?
Paul: Yeah, seems like it is. You know, it seems like they’re gonna kind of… you know, people wanted answers and the prosecutor gave an aggressive answer. Listen, you know, I think that this is gonna go away. I’m just surprised, everyone’s surprised, that charges were brought. They’re in their home, you know. New York, again, has the same rule, it’s called the castle doctrine. Other states have stand your ground. You can be in a park and if you feel threatened, you can pull your gun out. You don’t have a duty to retreat in certain states. In New York, we have a duty to retreat but within our home, we do not have to retreat. We can use deadly force if we feel threatened.
Male 1: That’s kind of…
Male 2: In our home or on our property?
Paul: On our property, in our home. Some states have car, you could be in your car. New York doesn’t. So yeah, in your property. So if you’re…
Male 2: So isn’t that where the argument would go down? If it goes to trial, wouldn’t the argument go down, that they’re right in their yard, right by their house?
Male 1: I’m just trying to figure out…
Paul: Beyond doubt.
Male 1: …where my argument’s gonna go down, right, when I get into that argument.
Paul: No, you’d lose that one. Yeah. As long as you’re in your… you could be on your property line and that falls under the castle doctrine.
Male 1: Okay, good. Good.
Male 2: Wow, this is the world we’re living in.
Paul: Yeah, this is not easy.
Male 1: I’ll just sit on the porch, make them come to me.
Male 2: Well, hey, this is just some shooting skeet, Paul. I actually think this is a step up. Last week we talked all about executions. This week’s… I think this is very informative.
Male 1: That went through, by the way, another execution.
Male 2: Paul, you’re the best for playing along each week, we really appreciate it.
Male 1: Thanks, Paul. 1800law1010, 1800law1010.com. Always a pleasure.
Paul: Talk soon, guys. Thank you.